Is it possible the development of humanity without technology? Do we should always optimistic about the future? Why do children become attached to toys and robots, and we do not hug the machine? Who is the “technological Darth Vader?” All this talk with Dr. Aleksandra Przegalińską, an expert on artificial intelligence, transhumanism and social robots.
Bina48 is 6 years old, and most spiteful talk about it “head on a plate.” This is because Bina is an android created in the image and likeness of a real woman. The similarity is not only the physical, the robot taught memories, beliefs and views Bina Aspen Rothblatt. This is one of the first attempts to transfer the personality to your computer. Bina looks like a man behaves like a human, but a robot. Many people in contact with these beings feels uncomfortable, lacks psychological comfort. This phenomenon is called the “uncanny valley”. My interlocutor every day has to do with robots and bots online.
– Joanna Sosnowska: You talked to Biną48?
– Aleksandra Przegalińska: Yes, many times
– I like impressions? You stepped in the uncanny valley?
- I do not feel peculiarities of the valley.
- There was only one moment – at the conference, when Bina was launched, opened her eyes and looked around the room. Just like that, all of a watched. Then for a while I stopped. In the case of robots such as Bina is interesting is that even if you get the uncanny valley, the fun starts later.
– What’s that?
- Face, head of mobility and the fact that you can meet someone look. This is not to be missed as a factor that builds some form of affective response.
– That is easier for us to make contact, if we see somebody, and not just read the words on the screen?
- Yes, there is a stronger reaction than the chatbot, or bot found only in the browser. Epistolary culture has taught us that even if someone is far emotions can call letter, but – and this is just my intuition, which now check in the course of research – social robot of some kind of physical manifestation will have a better chance of contact with us. When we brought Binea to Wroclaw, people talked to her after two hours. I’m not sure if planted in front of their screens to talk too much to continue.
– Once I spoke with the creators of Corte, an intelligent assistant from Microsoft. They told me then that they learned it so far reacted eg. On sexist taunts
- Even bot ZUS so responsive to this type of attack, and can be odszczeknąć. For me all about the use of robots is heavy. Very antropomorfizuję all these machines, so I like to see people digging robots Boston Dynamics is until my blood of the storm. Or experiment, which is called “St. Elmo’s Fire.” People set fire to a robotic Elmo, and he always laughed and said that his voice, “Hi, it’s Elmo. How is everybody? “. The mechanism of voice work to him until the end. Already the burning, burnt face looked like a Terminator, but kept saying “Hi, hi everybody.”
– I shiver from the stories
- This is for the faint of heart. When I saw it for the first time almost I fainted. And yet the same horrible sophisticated form of torture as the series Game of Thrones. It’s a big task humanistic society, how to deal with it can handle. Although I do not think quickly build a society of two separate beings – humans and robots.
– silicon and protein
- Exactly! I like Star Wars for the fact that the line is not drawn conflict between humans and nieludźmi. Robots from Star Wars are somehow servant, but also a pioneer, have their own personalities are respected. But visions of where robots serve coffee, are repressed by a man not appeal to me. It’s like we’re back to the Middle Ages.
– But the robot itself will not be sad that gives you a cup of coffee
- Well, we have no problem with the easement washing machine. We do not ask her how she feels, not cuddle them. Perhaps not, actually. Social Robotics Laboratory at MIT resigned from humanoid machines replaced them with robots Interstellar kind, intelligent and supporting systems.
– Sometimes you talk to bots.
- I like it this way
- I also like
- Who is the best?
– With Cleverbot is the most talkative
- Yes, I got a lot of awards.
– But it often turns cat’s tail, changes his mind, distort words. It is not difficult to guess that it is not man
- I asked friends about the conversation with Alice bot …
– Artificial Linguistic Internet Computer Entity
- My daughter, Alice, has a name after the bot. Friends called him, he is like a man, but slightly disturbed. Fitting it to the human world was not a problem, you just have to find him a suitable drawer.
– “Man, but slightly disturbed”?
- Even the first bots – Eliza and then Parry – assumed a psychological strangeness. Eliza was a therapist and in a very specific way of asking questions. For example, you say “My father smokes,” and she she asked, “Why do you say that your father smoke?”. A simple mechanism, but did an excellent job in a situation which is psychotherapy. A Parry, bot-paranoid, he did the same thing, but it gave answers. So Eliza asked the patient, and Parry answered every question the same thing – “they follow me”, “someone behind me going.” These two bots, embedded in specific circumstances, miraculously odnajdywały.
– And your tests involve checking how people react in a relationship with bot
- And how is it similar to the relationship with a man. We would like to see where convergence in interactions where they are affective responses in a conversation.
- And how the children respond to the call of the bot?
- Very good. Children are generally very posthumanistyczne, have a great ability to antopomorfizowania, or transmit human characteristics to everything that is around them. They love their toys come in a variety of roles. And the more we grow, the more we suspend these abilities. Some effects that we observe – eg. Attachments to robots, are with them too short, because then this will grow. My daughter is 3 years old and willing to talk to Siri. Will it be in a few years? I do not know. We need 10 years to see if there are any lasting effects.
– You said that children are posthumanistyczne
- This trend transhumanist agenda, according to the achievements of science and technology should be used to improve the quality and prolong human life, I agree with the fact that “we have always been transhumanistyczni.” Technological progress is correlated with the progress of humanity. I do not believe in a different development than the technological development. Either we move forward – consciously, courageously and in a sustainable way, we are building technologies that contribute to the building of general well-being of our civilization, or we do not. And if we do not, it does not wait us nothing amazing. Transhumanism says that it is time to mobilize global debate on the subject. To at least choose what we want. I prefer the attitude that somehow affects the future than the one that says “the future is going to happen.”
– And you do not have the impression that transhumanists are too hurraoptymistyczni and establish a utopian scenario?
- Scaring the public or pop culture approach to technology, polarization – utopia or dystopia, for me is not entirely productive. Of course, pop culture has its own rules. But somewhere between pop culture and building technology should be the point at which society is rationally informed about what awaits us. This was the case of cloning – was widespread discussion, but we were not ready for its social consequences, so cloning is stopped. Such forms of collaboration, the action around the impact of the introduction of various technologies I like. Transhumanism which looks to the future optimistically – even if sometimes naive and utopian – is certainly a better idea than the extreme defeatist and Neo-Luddism.
- A little, but I will sow defeatism. One of the ideas of transhumanism is the emergence of Curiosities, which has lead the development of technology and the emergence of artificial intelligence exceeding human. This may not be so optimistic scenario.
- From the perspective of the individual probably a little scared. But the scale of metaphysical think it’s amazing. Let us hope that the machine will be better beings than ourselves. Perhaps the same little naively believe that this is possible. That rationality is different and drives are played differently. If the machine is being radically foreign to man, it may be just very good news. But of course, as Hawking said, it can also be very bad. Or it will be the best or the worst that we meet.
– So singularity you come?
- It depends on how you define singularity. I know rigorists, who say that the singularity can be defined in only one way – to achieve or exceed the competence of the human machine. If the SI can be understood a little wider, I think you can even say that we are already in it.
– Exactly! The most advanced algorithms of Google, Facebook, Amazon is already an introduction to artificial intelligence. Only one would have to assume that SI is subject to gradation.
- But our intelligence is subject gradation. Intelligence has a lot of different dimensions. Certain features of the intelligence machine already possessed, right? We also posiedliśmy some, but not others. Machine learning in this current version, the type of Deep Mind, this is a very serious step forward when it comes to how the machine enters into the knowledge of the world and what it does later.
– So true artificial intelligence is getting closer …
- You can say that certain steps have already been through. Of course, Google’s chief futurist Ray Kurzweil would like to think it was done like this (snaps his fingers) “and here it is.” Then Kurzweil quickly changing into exoskeleton and loads the mind to the network. And I do not expect it to be a little be of doomsday, when he suddenly raises new technological Darth Vader. I was criticized for saying that the “strange times” we live longer. I manifestation of this singularity is the internet of things, that is to communicate things with each other. What is “peculiar” is already present. Even the fact that people talk of bots, such as Tai in a sense, is a “peculiar.”
talking to Joanna Sosnowska